There’re better words to use in any situation.
To make the point more clear. As much as people tend to use it in the way they do for words such as ‘like’.
I mean people will just say f you, instead of thinking of a witty insult or express an emotion with more expression.
For example, say you want to express that a person is fat, which one is a more cutting way to tell someone they’re fat:
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“You’re a fat-f**k.”
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“Don’t bother trying to stand up. I know you haven’t done that in years.”
One more thing, As much as there is a time and place you don’t curse, it’s not a matter of “appropriateness” to me; what matters more is the impact of what’s said. I hope my example showcases that.
One last thing, - cause I just starting to realise this matter more to people than I thought it would (nothing wrong with that of course) - cursing doesn’t necessarily subtract from a remark as if it’s a negative number in a math problem, it’s just redundant for speaking (more often than not).
Southsamurai©sh.itjust.works gives a good example of cursing is bland as apposed to just using your brain.
Someone saying “I’m tired of this fucking rain” is more boring than someone saying “I really wish thor would give us a warning before bukkakeing the world”.
I just realise this will work as a post in a unpopular opinion space if that exist, lol.
Cursing is an art, and adds color to otherwise bland sentences and communication. Curse words emphasize tone, inflection, emotion.
If you’re not very good at cursing, maybe you should fuckin’ practice more.
In what way does it add emotion? I’ve heard people say “f you” to mean all different kinds of emotions. I find it hard to believe that saying “I’m f-ing sad” is more emotional than taking time to think it though and get something such as this “I think losing a family member would hurt less than what I’m feeling right now.”
“I haven’t eaten in 4 hours and 41 minutes and now long for a sandwich with cheese, tomatoes and lettuce” also gets more info across than saying “I’m hungry”, yet people keep using the latter.
Yea, because it’s easy; just as saying f you is nothing more than a brainless task, lacking any depth.
Scientific studies have shown that curse words relieve physical pain better than any alternatives.
So there are some situations where anything else is an objectively worse option.
ETA: I’m willing to bet the reason this is being downvoted is due to the holier-than-thou attitude you’re copping, OP. It’s also something of a classist-coded cliché to claim that people who curse lack vocabulary, intelligence, education, or creativity. This is, of course counter to the fact that studies have shown that people with higher intelligence are more likely to use salty language.
Then, to curse is to show that you’re a wimp.
Anti-cursing for the win, baby.
/s
I guess don’t know how to break it to you that saying “f you” is not creative without being on a high horse then.
Also, speaking of cope. To say that a person using curse words instead of a witty remark is somehow smart cause smart people use curse words doesn’t sound right but I don’t how else to interpret the ETA you made.
Much of the time communication isn’t about being creative or coming off smart. It’s about effectively conveying meaning with the tools you have. Sometimes that means simple, crude language is more effective at conveying something than all the wit in the world.
So when I’m in a situation that calls for its use, I don’t care that “fuck off” is a dime-a-dozen phrase that doesn’t make sense. It’s never misunderstood, it’s cathartic to say, and I don’t need to think on the spot to figure out something more eloquent - my mind is on, y’know, who or what needs to fuck off instead.
Ok, I understand what you’re saying, saying “f you” is faster & easier.
2 (now 3) points I want to make:
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I getting this sense that instead of speaking to someone, it’s to let off steam. As you put it, “it’s cathartic to say.” I find that telling of a weak character to need to blow off steam because of a conversation they’re having.
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Since cursing usally indicates aggression, I can’t help but think if you are short on time then making people feel aggression is not the smart thing to-do.
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Cursing is just as impercise as using wit. I don’t know how it helps other than maybe show rage in a spit-second responce, but people have said “f you” in different kinds of context for different kinds of affects. At that point intead of “f you”, you can say “leave if you going to say such trash.” You could be more direct than using some vague swear word.
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why is letting off steam indicative of a weak character? I think that when under stress, it’s actually indicative of someone being emotionally intelligent to recognize they need to let some stress out and find an avenue for it. I can’t explain exactly why, but swearing has always been a pretty effective way for me to let out some stress mid conversation while staying focused on a problem.
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some contexts call for aggression. i.e. If someone’s making me or someone I care about uncomfortable in public, it can be pretty useful to bare my teeth back. A simple “fuck off” doesn’t require me to engage with any of their bullshit at all, gets the point across, and carries it with a mild aggression that actually does make people fuck off much of the time.
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it is imprecise, but in many contexts it’s precise enough to convey displeasure and dismay enough to get the point across. In fact the power of “fuck you” is in how concise yet universally applicable and understandable in so many situations.
For the first point, I fail to see how cursing dosen’t show your anger, if it’s going to be used to blow off steam. People have curse absent-mindedly when angry, I’d know, I’ve done it before. What good is this emotional intelligence if it’s going to give you the same results as if a person without it when in conversation?
The thinking of cursing being the method to use (with the understanding that we’re thinking of affective methods - not just punch someone in the face) doesn’t sit right. I understand getting angry (we all been there), however, you’ll be surprise in the power of taking a couple seconds to think it through.
When you think you have to say the thing that pops into your head right away, it ends up being ineffctive for commucation & won’t let others see the emotional intelligence that you’ve.
I know this seems to be a meme, but meditation & being mindful of your surroundings has help me “let out steam.” I also work on improving myself, when you try to remove curse words, you can find where you feel you need to say it and thus work on methods to help with that. When I think of emotional intelligence, I think of understanding the emotions you’ve & not letting them control your actions (think stoiticism).
For the second point, this only works when you can leave the situation and not have to worry about the consequences; it’s not going to work with cops, it’s also not going to work well for family (I’d know, having my christain grandma say f-you to me isn’t fun); I, in fact, find it hard to think of consequence-free moments for it.
For the third point, I see that depending on context, it’ll work, then it should work for wit, no? I fail to find the difference between wit and swearing for communication outside of it being easier to curse. If the point is cursing is faster & easier, then you’ve a point, but I’m thinking you meant something else or something more. Even for expressing anger, I find the clam looking anger to be more emotionally intelligent than throwing out a curse word that even a child can do when having a meltdown.
Ultimately, we’re discussing two different styles of communication that I don’t see as any better or worse than each other - everyone finds what works for them in their circumstances and environment and your style probably works great for yours!
There’s a fair bit of hostility and harassment I encounter in public for various reasons, and I also have some inherent difficulty processing speech and verbalizing. As a result, I take a pretty blunt approach to communication - one in which I do not mind showing that I’m angry, because that is a necessary thing to be sometimes.
I practice mindfulness a lot and do not generally feel required to say the first thing that comes to mind. But if a drunk asshole is following me home, I’m not looking to outwit em. I’m looking to stay focused on my safety while letting em know that I see em and I’m probably more trouble than they’re looking for.
In serious conversation with people I care about, I do swear, but it’s because phrases like “I’m so fucking sorry that happened to you” come naturally to me and are effective. The emphasis that a little bit of swearing can add in moments like that is pretty useful.
This all doesn’t have to be your thing, like I said this is all down to personal preference - but it would be a mistake to assume that people who swear aren’t communicating as meaningfully. It’s just another tool that we have at our disposal.
Sorry to hear about the speech problem; and I can relate to the hostility problem (It’s why I try to understand others rather than freak-out and get nasty, although I’m not perfect at it).
Unironically, the reason I don’t curse is because it helps me speak better and focus on the emotions (that I’ve) that aren’t so clear to me. Cursing - from my point of view - can get in the way of understanding and engagment of speech & emotions.
As for picking one or the other, let me try to put the shower thought in one sentence, since I seem to have lost the original point, somewhere in having these coversations:
Cursing is uncreative & tends to be use as filler words.
Maybe it’s too obvious to people that they assumed more than needed (the - “there’s always something better to say,” probably didn’t help, I’ll admit that.)
I genuinely thought it was intersting idea, since I’ve used them as filler words & I heard others do it too.
I noticing trends with the post, and - while responding - starting to see the can of worms I’ve opened up; I really thought this post would get something around 3 votes and 1 comment.
I understand and relate to most of speech ( and in art in general ) can boil down to personal preferences.
Speech to me can be a little bit more than that, but I’ll rest my case here.
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I guess don’t know how to break it to you that saying “f you” is not creative without being on a high horse then.
I give you a decent counterargument with some bonus alliteration and all you can muster is a strawman?
Also, speaking of cope. To say that a person using curse words instead of a witty remark is somehow smart cause smart people use curse words doesn’t sound right but I don’t how else to interpret the ETA you made.
You’ve reversed cause and effect here. I didn’t say that all people who curse are smart. I said smart people curse.
You’ve argued from a cliché and from a strawman misrepresentation of my original point. I hope someday you look back and cringe at your small-minded pretentiousness in this thread.
For the 1st point, all I read is that smart people curse, & I’m on a high-horse for pointing out cursing isn’t that creative.
You don’t seem to refute that cursing isn’t super creative, so I fail to see the counter argument here.
And if you going to say that I’m condescending for what was stated, then guilty as charge, I guess.
For the sencond point, read again what you wrote me. I see “smart people are more likely to use curse words.”
That doesn’t state when nor to what degree do they curse.
Also my point is that there’s better words to use then swear words, I fail to see how it’s suppose to matter that smart people use swear words.
Again I ask, does it make the swear word more intellient because someone smart says it as oppose to a witty remark?
The best speakers tend to not use them if we’re going to bring who says what in this.
3rd point, clichés exist for a reason. I hope that after you let out the steam (probably by cursing), you can see how - even in your rage - you thought of insults instead of cursing. Would hate to think it would show you as lacking brain power than the smart people cursing away somewhere.
What meaningful things are you saying instead of cursing?
Depends on the situation.
Edit:
To replace one word for another would be the same as saying the f word is now written & pronounce as “zulk”.
I agree that cursing is often used as a replacement for “um”. But you ever really appreciate someone who knows how and when to curse, with intention and as an infliction? It’s a joy to behold.
Maybe? I find more joy in a clever remark then a person saying the same 7 or so words in a - what seems to be random - order.
You’re talking about a different issue. It just happens to feature a lot of cursing. But cursing itself does not make a remark less clever.
Maybe I miswrote it. I mean that choosing from a wheel the 1 out of 7 words to use, isn’t as clever as thinking of an insult that stings. I agree that cursing doesn’t take away, it just isn’t needed.
Are you saying there’s never a time where a curse word is appropriate, mr_no_swearing?
I think there’re better words to use. “Appropriate” makes it sound as if I’m a nanny or something; I don’t care about appropriate, I care about if the phrase made an impact. There’s not much impact in swearing other than (maybe) showing anger.
Curse words themselves don’t reduce the impact of a sentence on their own. Context is important.
I’ll try ask this in a different way: can you think of a time when a curse word seemed to fit the context of the point being made, or enhanced the impact, or felt powerful or eloquent? Can you remember and share the context of it?
I understand that using swear words don’t take away from the remark, in the same way that someone’s point isn’t discounted because they used the word “like” more than needed.
As for the second point, I cannot think of one other then maybe a movie quote since the words choosen got popular due to the context of the movie (or any media).
That to me is more of a movie good than the phrase is great, but I can be wrong about that (I’m just not sure how).
Ugh. There’s a book about how to be a better boss, and one of the things it says is that adding a mild curse to otherwise normal speech will convince people you are being sincere. My boss read it.
“Well, this damn job isn’t going to build itself!”
“Aw shit! Lunch is over! Back to work!”
It was so awful.
You’ve my sencerest condolences.
That sounds as if a punch-line that an alien trying to learn how to be human would have in a comedy.
This is so far from unpopular.
The general social mores are against cursing. While that has been slowly changing, it hasn’t reached a tipping point yet.
It’s also not a new opinion. There’s a lot of sayings related to it, my favorite being “cursing just gives people permission to ignore you”.
The rest of your post? Flawed examples. But that’s just my opinion, you do you.
Yea I get what you mean, Thanks.
Inregards to the flawed example, how is it flawed?
I’m getting cooked over here, anything will help.
Well, it was one, I just didn’t catch the typo of examples instead of example.
But, you’re using an insult. Your example is already something nasty to say, no matter how you say it because you’re attacking someone. Using curse words is no more or less effective at pissing the person off enough to shoot you (as an extreme but possible outcome).
For an example to work to support your opinion, it has to be undirected because directed statements are never neutral to begin with.
A better example would be something like pointing out a painting you don’t like.
You could say, “that looks like something a five year old vomited up after drinking finger paints”
Or, “that thing is so fucking ugly it makes me want to vomit”.
As long as the person you’re saying it to isn’t the artist, owner, or a dedicated fan of the artist, you have a relatively controlled example where the main difference is the presence of cursing.
See the difference in the examples? If I call you a giant moron, it doesn’t matter much if I say fucking moron instead. It’s the insult that’s doing the work, not the adjective.
Now, this applies at any level of creativity. “You’re about as pleasant as the south end of a north bound mule” is relatively creative, as is “you’re a bigger asshole than the north end of a south bound elephant” very similar insults, with the significant difference being the cursing.
In that specific example, it could even be argued that the use of profanity increases the effect, and it would, depending on the target. Cursing is an amplifier in a huge swath of the population. “You’re a jerk” isn’t as effective as “you’re a fucking jerk”, because that extra step outside of social mores deepens the aggressiveness of the insult.
It’s definitely subjective. There are people that would be more insulted by a well crafted, profanity free barb. But, on the whole, insults are about aggression and challenge. It’s a form of dominance display to an extent. So using insults as an example for the effects of cursing is flawed by nature.
Now, a better example yet would be the weather. Someone saying “I’m tired of this fucking rain” is more boring than someone saying “I really wish thor would give us a warning before bukkakeing the world”. Is bukkakeing an actual word? Doesn’t matter, but it struck my mind lol. You can replace the jizz reference with “spitting on”, if you feel sexual matters serve the same role as cursing.
Once you remove the insult factor, it becomes more about the cursing itself, which makes a better example and point of discussion.
I appreciate the examples and the info.
If you don’t mind I want to borrow your rain example for the post, with credit of course ;).
As for the insult sting ability, I understand that if your going to make a sentence long insult then cursing dosen’t seem to weaken it’s effect, others brought up that it doesn’t hurt the insult if swears are used.
I also understand that being offended can be subjective.
I just find that if your going to try to be cunning with words, why give somone the ability to say “You mad bro?”
It’s harder & more biting to think of the words where they’ve to think about whats said than having it morph into a shouting match or something along those lines.
For the second point. Maybe I’m just terminally online, but it seems as if everyone curses & only knows how to curse. When I see a true insult it’s as if a breath of fresh-air & it usally stops the other guy in their tracks for a bit. It also has the funny factor for me, but I’m willing to accept that it’s my own view on humor.
Outside of christian mom’s or people saying not to curse here for: advertisers to feel safe or because it’s inappropriate to say it in front of children, my experience is the lemmys down-voting me & saying I’m wrong seem to be the norm for people.
Again, I understand where you arrive from, policing speach isn’t cool & people end up doing it for a reason, usually for offensive speech that hurts people. I just find curse words to mean anything & everything, & I just don’t find it that hurtful. For example, I live with Jehovah’s witnesses that curse. I had my mom curse at me when I was little. It just seems to be “I’m angry” written edgyly if it has emotion at all.
Hope you understand what I mean, if not, let me know.
What are you? 13? Just let people use whatever words they want. You might think that there is a “better alternative for any situstion” but sometimes nothing like a good “fuck you” drives the point home. It expresses hate in such a simple way without trying to be performative or witty. Also you can say fuck, we aren’t in the middle school courtyard for god’s sake
If cursing makes you feel more adult then be my guest.
To me it’s more immature to curse than to point out that cursing won’t hold the weight of a good insult.
@[email protected] This post was reported for fatphobia. I understand that you are using it as an example but we do want to avoid attacks on specific people or groups of people. Like you showed in your later posts, people swear at all sorts of things, like the weather, stubbing their toe, and missing the bus.
Do you mind changing the example in your original post? You can say that the example was changed at my request. Especially if you think changing the example will make the comments confusing.
Otherwise, I like your post. It’s an interesting thing to think through and while it seems to be a little unpopular, my thoughts in the shower are often not fully thought through and would stand up poorly to the scrutiny of internet strangers.
Edit: I’m getting some down votes. I’m always open to hearing other people’s thoughts if you would like to share. I make mistakes.
Thanks for the support.
One thing about the offensive language.
Swear words are offensive by nature. I not sure how to write an example of a bad basic swear-word example without it being tagged as offensive.
This further adds to my point that swears are lazy and can mean anything to anyone.
If I can make a suggestion; can we mark it as nsfw or mark the post as having offensive language?
Otherwise, give a swear-word I can use that’s safe to use, and I’ll try to make it work.
Thank you for reading. Hope you’ve a great day.
I agree to an extent. If overused, cursing can be “edgy” and offputting. However, sometimes you just need to emphasize the emotion of a given statement that mere “polite” words cannot express.
Quite frankly, I do not trust people that do not curse. I feel that they are not emotionally genuine. Conversely, I feel that people that curse too much are emotionally immature and do not know how to express themselves properly. Cursing is an art. It’s a linguistic balancing act where one must take the audience and message into consideration.
I disagree with “polite” words having no emotion. Tell me you don’t get anything from this sentence “Go to hell, you subhuman pest.”
I think the tone & emphasis matters more than selecting some curse word. When I wrote the sentence, I was thinking the “subhuman pest” part was biting since it would be said in a sharp snapping tone & conveys more info than a swear word.
It’s entirely possible to get your feelings across without ever using curse words. I commend people for having the emotional maturity and the vocabulary to do so. However, I feel it is emotionally disingenuous to censor yourself with “polite” versions of curse words, for example saying “shoot” instead of “shit” or “fudge” instead of “fuck”.
I can understand if your surroundings aren’t conducive to curses, like being around children or in polite company such as a work or religious environment, but if you’re in a position where it is socially acceptable to curse but instead choose to censor yourself, I find you to be emotionally disingenuous or at least emotionally immature. If you choose to never ever curse, that’s cool too. Again, I think it’s commendable to never have to resort to curses. But if you have to use a curse word to get your point across, just use it if the environment is appropriate. Doubly so if it’s in a written medium.
I know what you’re trying to say when you type “f**k”. You’ve done nothing but demonstrate to me that you would like to seem “proper” while still resorting to using offensive language. Emotionally disingenuous, or at best emotionally immature. If you feel like you must censor yourself, then just don’t curse at all.
I get what you mean, however that last paragraph seems to be mistaking something.
I was showing how saying “fat-f**k” is shallow than the more biting “don’t get up, I know you haven’t done it in years.” It’s meant as a comparison.
I’m just a tiny-bit tired so maybe I need to rephrase it again, but I hope I made my point.
And at the time of writing my previous two posts, I was a little drunk so I hope I made my point lol.
But yes, I understand where you are coming from. There is always an alternative, more “polite” way of getting a message across, even if that message itself is not polite. Using curses is a crutch for people that do not have the wit and vocabulary to say what they want to say. Did I get that right?
I feel like we agree to some extent. However, where we differ is in our attitudes towards the use of curses. You seem to look down on people who curse at all whereas I look down on people who curse profusely. By profusely, I mean in situations where cursing is not warranted (inappropriate setting) or just general overuse.
I think people can do and say whatever they want so long as they don’t hurt anybody, cursing included. I don’t see how the use of curses actually hurts anyone except maybe the recipient of a pointed “fuck you”. Anyone else around to hear the curse word only gets offended because society told them to.
I draw the line at racial slurs. That’s just not cool.
It’s all good, I still feel a little bit sleep deprived right now.
It’s less so looking down on people and more so viewing cursing as you said a crutch.
I guess that’s on me for spilling the smug jar on my post (gotta put it somewhere better).
I also don’t really mind curses, it’s just not as great as a good insult.
I’d know, I had a few months where swear-words were all I’ve said & I look back and find it kinda cringy.
Hope this clears things up.
